The sprites seem a bit too large, unless you're making the actors larger. Anyway, I hope to see this mod complete, the Tau are my favourite race in 40k.

I am back. under a few conditions, but I am back.

This post is actually me doing multiple posts in one post, and will be sectioned off by topic with a hideous line of -'s


This thread is Hideously disorganized, the work is inconsistent, and the people don't agree, Therefor I shall be the sticky glue that binds you together into getting a complete, quality mod!

First Off, I am now taking on the roll of Quality control. It is now my responsibility to get off my ass, and test everything. I will decide what code is used, what sprites are used, and what descriptions of any given item will be. The reason is I cannot sprite, and you all sprite differently, and nothing matches. the code is inconsistent and the weapons don't function well together, the sprites while some are nice, are inconsistent, and look terrible when you have to look at them at the same time. The plan is that If I keep things organized and choose what to throw out, A job mind you that hasn't been done yet, will ensure that our mod looks like a single mod, rather than a hodge-podge of random stuff made by 9 people.

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My method of Quality control will be as unbiased as I can be, and I will now list the steps to which I will take. steps will be done in this order, if it fails, I will say which step it fails on. If it fails any step, I will stop there, and not test further, until said issue was corrected by anyone.

Sprites
1) is the sprite good (Even if it is the same size, and detail as later, if it is ugly it will be thrown out)
2) Is the sprite consistent with the models, or official GW/BL work?
3) Is the sprite consistent in detail with the other weapons, and units, to which it belongs? (If no, trash)
4) Is the sprite consistent in size to what the weapon is. (IE is the rail rifle, rifle size, or tank turret size?)

Effects (Judged separate from the rest of the code)
1) Does the effect look and sound nice
2) Does the effect look and sound true to the object to which it belongs
3) Does the effect look and sound fit in with Cortex Command
4) Does the effect look and sound lag on my machine (512 MB ram w/ 2GB VR Mem, I get 0.8x time scale w/o mods)
5) are the glows blindingly bright (if so, I may darken it myself)
6) is the effect particle dependent/heavy (If so suggestions will be made to reduce particles)
7) Is the audio level of the effect to loud (I will balance it myself, I have the tools)
Is the Audio ripped out of DoW (I would prefer not to use DoW sounds, but will accept them barring a good alternative, Good alternatives will be voted on, excluding the creator from vote, which means If I make a sound, and noone but me likes it, it will not be used, this ensures that there is no complaint)

Code
1) Does the object generate noticeable lag
2) Does the object function without errors
3) Does the object rape the map (if it does, it's gone)
4) Does the object appear to do what GW/BL says it should do
5) Is the object balanced for CC (If it is any harder than Ivan's BF or SM, or can't be harmed with vanilla content it is turned down)
6) Does it actually do exactly what GW/BL says it should do (such as the melta, Photon grenades, bolters, etc)

FINAL STEP
UNITY!
1) Is the actor, vehicle, or weapon visibly consistent with the rest of the mod
2) Is the ... visibly consistent with Cortex command
3) Is the ... visibly consistent with GW/BL
4) Is the ... of A visual quality that is accepted in the forums (optional as far as I'm concerned)
5) Is the ...'s function consistent with the rest of the mod.
6) Is the ...'s function and balance of a quality that is accepted on the forums (again, ♥♥♥♥ peoples opinions, people suck)

Because I get to angry about things, I leave it to 411570N3 to moderate this thread, as he tents to have a more level head. this way if anyone does anything stupid, or goes to far with something, it's his job to tell people to stop, because A) it saves me the trouble and B) he tends to get a better response than me.

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Now, Content creation:

Anyone may submit content for approval, Including : Posting content into this thread, PMing Me, or 411570N3 said content, (me because I'm QC, and him because its technically 'his' thread)

In the event of duplicate content (such as 2 of the same, of code, sprite, sound, or effect) steps will be taken to chose ONE of them. Those steps are as follows

1) I will go through the steps listed above, to try to decide which is best for the mod
2) I will PM my judgment to 411570N3 for him to judge as well
3A) If 411570N3 agrees with me on which is to be used, it will be stated on the thread, and uploaded
3B) If 411570N3 disagrees it will be posted by either of us, and there will be an open vote, and both of our opinions will be posted, even if it means CCing the PMs between us.
4) in the event of any form of indecision, we will ask for the opinions of people beyond this thread, by PMing them. particularly ask better respected people. even as much as I hate him with a passion I might get arrested for voicing, grif is an acceptable person to ask for criticism. I say this because anyone else will also have to follow most of the same steps listed above.




That is what I think should be done.
What I am doing now, is taking a break. I had Dagorhir practice saturday and I am sore and sunburned.

In a side note, vagyr, it wasn't specifically you that got me so pissed, as much as it was, mounting tension. that was just the straw that broke the camels back. also I hate that phrase.

naXx hasn't posted, but is welcome back any time now....




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Also to get it out of the way. 2 lists, 1) Who's already here 2) What is done/needs done

Who's here
Miles T3h R4t - Quality control and content creator (primarily code/sound)
411570N3 - Moderator and Content Creator (primarily sprites)
vagyr - Content creator (sprites and code)
naXx - Content creator (??? I forgot)
grenade - Content creator, OP, Angry man.

If I have missed anyone, speak up.

What to do
Actors-
Fire Warrior - 1 finished - Fails standards (Sprites don't feel right, something about walkpaths/flight)
Pathfinder -
Stealth suit (XV15 or 25) - 1 finished - Fails standards (size, colors)
XV 22 -
Gun drones - Optional but doable, especially next build
Kroot - optional, vote on if we should?
Vespids - I am biased against vespids and will always fail them because they are ugly and stupid.

crisis suits and broadsides are to large to use well, both game size, and file-size (sprites)

Weapons
Fire warrior/pathfinder
Pulse Rifle - 1 code, 2 sprites (needs re-coded)
Pulse pistol - 1 code 2-3 sprites? (may need re-coded)
Pulse Carbine - 1-2 code 2-3 sprites (needs recoded and re-sprited)
Rail Rifle - 2-3 code, 3-4 sprites (needs organized, but mostly decided on, barring objections)

Stealth suit
Heavy Rail Rifle - Does not actually exist in 40K, barring house rules, Needs voted on.
Fusion blaster - 1 code, 3 sprites, multiple effects (Code needs re done, I'm working on it)
Burst cannon - Needs done from scratch

XV 22
Heavy Rail rifle - Same as above
Fusion blaster - See above
Burst cannon - see above
Flamer - Codeless, 2 sprites (Needs re-sprited, for size, color, and matching content)
Cyclic Ion Blaster - Codeless, spriteless
Air bursting Fragmentation Launcher - Codeless, Spriteless. ( I may help code, seems fun)
Plasma Rifle - I don't remember,
Missile pod - Sprites (Failed for multiple reasons, PM Me) Needs coded ( I have an Idea, PM me)
Smart Missile System - Broadside and Vehicle only, not to use, barring one of my later mentioned topics in this post.


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Now, Other than all this I'd like to point out, that there are units in imperial Armour that are not even mentioned in the core codex. I would like to vote on weather or not they be included.

Sensor tower - No weapons, its just a tower, I'm thinking a bunker module, maybe add a selectable actor, or something that creates TDE's that will 'explode' both distracting enemy AI, and attracting the attention of friendly AI (to maybe get them to see the enemies?) Mostly useless in CC, but It's there. I vote no, but I'm not the only one here.

Drone Sentry Turret :
A deployable Turret (which falls as a drop craft, I can code that part)
It can't move, it counts as a vehicle, and should be hard to kill.
Its weapons are - Twin linked burst cannon, Twin linked fusion blaster, Twin linked Heavy Plasma Rifle, Twin Linked Missile pods, and Smart missile system. (This is probably the only reasonable way to include smart missiles, unless we invent a heavy weapons team) I vote yes to this.


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All this having been said, I have to take a break cause this was a metric ♥♥♥♥ load of typing, and I only do code, so I need a break. im gonna go eat and do some other stuff for a while, I'll probably be back on the forums again today, but I wont be actually 'working' until tomorrow.

I am sorry if it seems that I just went all mod-nazi on everyone, but it seems If I don't go over the top, I go unnoticed.

If anyone wants specific info on why any given content was failed, PM me. this only goes for everything that's already been created. new content past this point will be criticized in the thread, with reason given.

well miles asked me if i could help and i can, send me whatever needs spriting help over a pm.(i can code just not very well, send me simple things if you want them done)

the 3rd section of my above post contains a list of everything that needs done, spriting and code included, and duplicate work is acceptable, and I'll just pick out of it what's best. I'm already working on the fusion blaster, and its coming along okay but I'm stumbling around with it.

Sorry for the double post.

Heres what I have for the fusion blaster.

It is NOT finished. it needs visual effects to cover the fact that its just a big blinking orange bar.

I will not use a muzzle flash, Those look ugly, and don't necessarily go where your hitting. They need to be Shells for the rounds I've made. I suck at this sort of thing so if someone else could do that.

I will also point out that its 'unstable' if your moving, the beam arcs. mind you your not supposed to use a fusion blaster while moving, so in a way its true to the fluff, but really that's just me making up an excuse to not fix it. the less inaccurate while moving it is, the bigger the gap between the muzzle and where the ammo seems to appear.

Its like I said, this is not finished, and criticism is requested.

I am 411570N3, and I verify that this guy knows his s<faeces>.

All hail Miles, the mighty, sticky binding glue! Quality control is what a lot, if not all other collaborative mods lack.

Well if I haven't got anything else to do I suppose I may as well give Miles what he wants with the scaled down sprites... It won't take that long... Then I'll do my own release, more canon, less weird stuff, more code that is as of yet unused. Though it would be great if Miles had his Fusion Blaster for me by the time I release... *notsosubtlehint*.

I uploaded the unfinished one, I just suck at adding effects. I'm gonna have to make a unique muzzle flash, and shells, to create the effects, and its gonna be a pain. If anyone is enthusiastic enough to create a bright orange blur of a cloud, that's created as an AEmitter or a TDE or something, that has Orient To Velocity = 1, and has a fairly low spread, but can mask a large area, it would be much appreciated, otherwise i'm gonna be ripping out my hair to come up with one. Mind you it may lag more than it already does, I plan on tweaking that as well.

glad than you are back.
naXx is doing the sprites.
i am doing the codes.
also did you try the new projectile????
like please try it some1 and review it!!!
i have spent a lot of time making it and i do find it usefull

I will test it... if worse comes to worse, i might change the colors and use it as the muzzleflash / 'mask' for the fusion blaster. for some reason I'm expecting a cloud of glow and smoke. I'll test it now.

the "tau 4-4-09" file has been tested, and here is what I feel, about everything.

In general :
1) Huge problem, you can't buy any of the weapons, they are only available on the actors. this is horrible.
2) none of the bullets work right, some of them fall short of the sights, and others always seem to fall short.
3) some of the glows and MOPixel/Particle colors are HORRIBLE, like neon blue and murky oil water... its nasty.

Specific things

Pulse Pistol - Sprite is still old, and needs updated to the new one
- the ammo functions tough for a pistol, which is correct for the tau, but it always falls short.
- The ammo is to dark

Pulse Rifle - Sprite is old, needs updated
- Same problem with the ammo the pistol has.
- the range is a little short

Pulse Carbine - Simply does not work, I pull the trigger, and the gun Exploded, it was just ♥♥♥♥ gone.
- The sprite is hideous and needs replaced. Primarily because of the color and bulkiness.
-unable to test beyond that

Fusion blaster - Does not do what a fusion blaster is supposed to do. At all
- The glows, cut off on squares because the .bmp is to small for the size of the glow
- The glows don't match any tau weapon, except maybe the Plasma Rifle
- Doesn't function, I couldn't kill even dummys with it.

Burst cannon - I am impressed, It actually does exactly what its supposed to
- I Love the sprite, except its to light, 411570N3, Please darken it a bit, between the fusion blaster and what it is somewhere. I say for you to do it because I've seen your sprites.
- The AMMO has 2 problems though
- 1) The ammo doesn't go far enough, add +50% to the lifetime,
- 2) the ammo is of a horrifyingly ugly color

I'm gonna stop here for a moment to say something that needs said.

The strength of the weapons (barring the fusion blaster) is pretty good, but here's whats wrong with them
they all fall short, and should at least travel a decent distance offscreen while sharp-aiming. they are all an ugly ugly color that should be wiped from the face of the earth. They don't glow or anything, but thats easy to fix, but we might have to make a custom glow, if someone gets a glow to the right size I'll change the Hue to make it nice, but the trail also needs changed, its ugly as all sin.

Apart from falling short (in all of them), firing to fast (pistol) or to slow (pulse rifle) the ammo is fantastic for stats. in fact, the RoF for the burst cannon is perfect, don't touch the burst cannons code, just change the colors and bullet lifetimes, and touch up the sprites and its done.


Next thing that needs done to the above weapons are MUZZLE FLASHES! They can't all have the same muzzle flash because there different sizes, the burst cannon should have the most unique flash, and it can't be a single circle ring thing around it cause its a multi-barrel Weapon.


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I would now like to take a moment to talk about something that is important as hell.

Most of the names are wrong. The correct names are as follows

Pulse Rifle
Pulse Pistol
Pulse Carbine
Fusion Blaster - Not cutter
Plasma Rifle
Marker Light - not sight, also, calling down Seeker Missiles.
Burst Cannon
Fire Warrior - (shas'la rank) Fire warriors may be Shas'Ui, but are still fire warriors, or honor guard
Path Finder - (also shas'la) May be shas'ui but are still just pathfinders.
Spotter - Pathfinders may also be Spotters for Sniper Drones, but that is only 1 per squad.
---There are no heavy pathfinders, artillery, or any other such teams. tau do not get heavy weapons teams, or specialists. they are a communist empire, and do NOT have any variety. That's not to say they don't have heavy units, or unique units, just that they are specifically lain out and cannot be changed.

Honor guard - (Or Shas'Ui, because it states there firewarriors that forgo crisis suits)
XV 15 - Stealth Suit
XV 25 - Stealth Suit
XV 22 - Experimental Stealth Suit
there are not more than 1 kind of XV 15, XV 25, or 22. It simply is that model, no variation beyond wargear, and they have the same exact name and designation regardless of said wargear and upgrades.


/Name Rant

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Back to the mod

Marker Light - This is a fantastic weapon, BUT the sprite is wrong. there is very little explenation of how a markerlight should look, and each different squad type gets a different design of a markerlight.
We must decide on the use of fire warrior, pathfinder, XV 15, XV 25, XV 22, or Drone Marker lights, as they all look different. It's an inconsistency in 40K, and it Is Games workshop's fault, not yours.

That part aside, I LOVE the markerlight, it is fantastic. We need to make a few minor tweaks though
When the actual 'light' appears, I can see the TDE appearing, and hitting, Not the sprite, but the red arrows and the name of the object because its a TDE. If you can replace it with an MOSR or AEmitter and still work it is fantastic, just duplicate the effect and test it. If you can't make it work with another object type then its fine as is.

The missile sprite. I didn't get a good look at it while using it. for now it can stay. The only thing about the markerlight I have a complaint for other than sprite, are A) sound and B) range. Yes, the markerlight is supposed to have a 36" range, which is more than even the Rail Rifle, so the Sight range should be LONGER THAN THE RAIL RIFLE. Mind you I think now the rail rifle's scope is a tad bit to long, but we can work those out later.


/markerlight ramblings - TLDR it's fantastic but needs minor tweaks otherwise perfect, and I am impressed


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The Bombs

WTF does that Photon grenade DO?!
I threw it and was like WTF Giant blue sperm flying about?! It made no sense.

Then I realized My own actors where shooting at the balls. I thought that they where actors for the wrong team, then noticed the Enemy AI was ALSO shooting them. It didn't lag my game, it looked bizar as hell and would certainly catch another play offguard, AND it works on the AI. I was gonna make some weird reppeler bomb but this works better, and lags less.

Make the balls smaller.
Make it create more of them
Make them move around a little more evenly- IE keep them on an even spread
Change the sprite for the TDE itself, and make the AEmitter (i think) persistent and visible.

Make one for each team so that either A) only the enemy will shoot or B) only you will shoot. If you can't do this without messing with the kill counts leave it as is for this part.

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Those OTHER bombs

The only words I have to express my absolute LOATHING of them is the words "those OTHER 'bombs'"

They do not work well, they lag like hell, they are ugly as sin, and they are not in ANY way REMOTELY cannon. Tau have 2 grenades. Photon grenades, and EMP grenades. This is neither. The basis for them is ONLY in DoW, and DoW is NOT exactly CANNON. Yes, SOME of DoW is cannon, such as in most of the videos for the Bloodravens in DC they make mention of the unknown primarch, and well... thats it, thats about the only piece of cannon info I got from those games.

2ndly the suicide bomb I admit does have some legitimate basis in game.

Before I talk about that I'd like to point out that it jsut DOESNT WORK. It blows up my helmet, If I have no helmet, I lose about 60 health... thats far from suicide, its an 'oh i take off my helmet and might lose an arm' pill.

Now the legitimate basis in game, is the Battlesuit Failsafe Detonator.

If this is what actually gave the idea for this, I am slightly impressed, although I doubt thats how it came to be.

First of all, the BFD is listed as for XV 8 and XV 88 ONLY, and is, AND I QUOTE
--

The failsafe is not simply suicide, but is "i'm going to take all of you mother ♥♥♥♥ out! I am the bomb!"
It literally is a giant, mech-sized suicide bomber.

Secondly, it is a SPECIAL ISSUE ONLY wargear.

This means that A) Only a squad commander may take this upgrade, and B) Only one failsafe PER ARMY. Therefor, it should not be buyable en mass in cortex command, or at a minimum should be EXTREAMLY expensive. Also to give you an idea of scale, the Failsafe is a LARGE BLAST MAKRER. This is the same size template they use for ORDINANCE. which means take out 30 guys in one blast, it kills tanks outright, size explosion. In CC thats basically gonna be a 6" RADIUS around the bomb everything will just die, and about 2 inches of the map will be just GONE.

Remember my rule about no map rape? the BFD is map rape in CC unless we make it only hurt actors, by making it light, not very sharp, but very VERY fast (the blast).

2ndly Remember my rule about nothing bigger than the XV 22? I might allow the XV 22 to use one, but it would NOT be an equiped object, but rather, if the head, or torso gib, it will explode. IE 2 versions of the XV 22, the explosive one will be more expensive, but no harder to kill (this way its worth it, i'm sick of explosive actors that are made to just pop like baloons, it makes them useless)

Point is its a long way away to use such a thing.

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The Rail Rifle

I'm not even going to say anything here, its just not worth it.

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The actors.

the honor guard have a nice helmet.

apart from that, the actors entirely fail the sprite check for the following reasons
1) Ugly
2) inconsistent to the rest of the mod
3) wrong colors - some of the weapon sprites have the perfect colors, we need to change the colors and shading to match.

They fail code for the folowing reasons
- firewarriors die when shot in the chest, faster than with headshots
- weird walkgroups

They PASS on some of the code though
- I LOVE THE JUMP! add about 10% more distance to the jumps and I will giggle like a school girl.

The Stealth suit(s)
I like the jetpack, it is nice but it fails for the following reason-
-Inconsistent with the rest of the mod.
It is nice though, I might try to use it for the flash on my fusion blaster, unless someone else makes better.


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In short

Pulse rifle/pistol/carbine - Use the new sprites, fix the ammo colors, fix the lifetimes on the ammo, make a new muzzle flash, fix the rates of fire on them. (they are single barrel guns for one) -maybe sound issues, I don't remember.

Burst cannon - Fix the color of the ammo, change the muzzle flash, make the ammo last longer. Darken up the sprite a bit, change the sound. otherwise perfect.

Fusion blaster - I think you where making something totaly different and just gave it the fusion blaster sprite and included it for no reason.

Markerlight - Re-sprite it, maybe fix it so we don't see the TDE. Perfect

Photon grenades - minor size issues, still WTFing about it, but I actually like it oddly enough.

actors - serious issues with them, but the jump is fantastic.

the rest is crap for now.
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After staring at this wall of text for this long, my eyes are killing me.

you think reading my posts is bad? Try typing one!

I have to take a break for a while cause now I have a headache... I won't be working on the fusion blaster for longer now, but maybe for now it's for the better, I don't want to half-ass it.

Yeah, I'm sorry to say he said exactly what I thought. Except I dislike the fusion blaster alot more. ALOT MORE...
I'm starting to work on the new release... with offsets. Anyway, if nobody else is going to work on the actors after that then I guess I'll have to -_-"

ok.
you are absolutly correct.
but!
i have just 2 objections.
1)the fusion BLASTER.
i made this particle with a lot of expirement and tried to make it fuctioning.
but i forgot 1 valuable thing in it.
to make it explode on contact as it was supposed to do...
that is why you could not kill a dummy with it.
also the detonators.
again the suiside detonator was just the effect not the power(the particles are not so sharp nor they are so fast to make it a good weapon) and also this was a request from naXx so i would like to keep it somehow.
also how abute the vox device?

We've both already said we didn't like it due to non-canon-ness.... the sprite's particularly bad as well...