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 Hay guise i'm finding sense in Sharpness. 
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Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 9:44 pm
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Post Re: Hay guise i'm finding sense in Sharpness.
Hmm, maybe I should do a more proper writeup of CC's ballistics, then, if that was so helpful.
I was going to make an entry-level 'my first gun' sort of guide, but that information is already out there, albeit not greatly presented.


Mon Nov 15, 2010 8:23 pm
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Post Re: Hay guise i'm finding sense in Sharpness.
Hmm, this could be very handy to give a better idea to give better values for materials and bullet speed for official content.
Mass would be defined to be as close to "real" values as possible ofcourse.


Wed Nov 17, 2010 5:23 pm
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Post Re: Hay guise i'm finding sense in Sharpness.
Actually, If someone wants to make a java applet, I'd be happy to find a hosting solution.

Something like

I want my [bullet material]
to penetrate [pixels] of [terrain material]
so it needs [sharpness]

And you'd be able to punch in whatever, and solve for x
Knowing no java at all, I could just make it in excel.


Wed Nov 17, 2010 11:49 pm
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Data Realms Elite
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Post Re: Hay guise i'm finding sense in Sharpness.
How about:
Code:
I want my bullet of <<m>>kg to penetrate <<y>> pixels of material index <<i>> at a rate of <<v>>m/s.
The sharpness required will be [((1/(m*v))*{index reference})*y].


Wed Nov 17, 2010 11:59 pm
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Post Re: Hay guise i'm finding sense in Sharpness.
I'm making this in PHP. I can self-host, so no worries about that.


Thu Nov 18, 2010 12:02 am
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Post Re: Hay guise i'm finding sense in Sharpness.
@RV
But that wouldn't work backwards, would it? Like if you knew the sharpness and how far you wanted it to penetrate, and needed the weight for the code?


Thu Nov 18, 2010 12:03 am
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Post Re: Hay guise i'm finding sense in Sharpness.
Are you going to use a material index reference or just structural integrity?


Thu Nov 18, 2010 12:04 am
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Post Re: Hay guise i'm finding sense in Sharpness.
I'm going to wait 'till tomorrow, because I forgot about what alpha just said.

In the meantime, enjoy ugly calculator.
http://steamwise.org/sharpness.php

Edit:
Also, a small list of common structural integrities probably wouldn't be a bad idea.


Thu Nov 18, 2010 12:15 am
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Post Re: Hay guise i'm finding sense in Sharpness.
alphagamer774 wrote:
@RV
But that wouldn't work backwards, would it? Like if you knew the sharpness and how far you wanted it to penetrate, and needed the weight for the code?


You are completely correct.


Thu Nov 18, 2010 12:29 am
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Post Re: Hay guise i'm finding sense in Sharpness.
EDIT-If you want the shortest version possible, I made a summary post below.

Code:
(1/(mass*velocity))*integrity = integrity/(mass*velocity) = sharpness
because
(1/5)*5 = 5/5
or
(1/16)5 = 5/16


This is very very old information, and If I recall correctly it was in Materials.ini since, almost forever. I'm not disputing the accuracy of this formula in any way but i'd like to point out that there's a way to simplify it.

Code:
I/MV = S
Multiply by MV on both sides
I = MVS
If Mass times velocity times sharpness is greater than integrity, it will penetrate, and lose velocity.


Yes, this math works, and yes, there is math to figure out how much velocity is lost from the integrity.
Code:
MSV = Force, or F
F - Integrity = X
X/M/S = new velocity, represented by Y

MSV = F
F-I = X
X/M/S = Y
MSY = F-I


and in English.
Mass x velocity x sharpness = total force
total force - integrity = the variable X
X divided by mass divided by sharpness = the new velocity
New velocity x mass x sharpness = Old force - integrity.



I'm pretty sure I have this right, Please correct me if I'm wrong.



EDIT- I Figured out what force sharpness is representative of!
I am sorry it is formatted so badly, I'm having a hard time wording this.

So, If you have enough force, in mass and velocity alone, to destroy 1 pixel of terrain, when you have a sharpness of 1, then with a sharpness of 2, you will destroy 2 pixels, a sharpness of 4, will destroy 4 pixels, that is, X sharpness per X pixels. The only time this is inaccurate is when gravity, and wind resistance reduce velocity. I figured out why.


If 20 pixels, is = to 1 meter, then 1 pixel is 1/20 of a meter, or 5 cm, or 1.96850394 inches
A Particle with a sharpness of 1, has a surface-contact area, fixed to 1 pixel, or 1/20 of a meter, or 5cm, etc etc.

1 particle is ALWAYS displayed as 1 pixel in size because you can't draw half a pixel, BUT for the sake of PHYSICS, at 5CM per pixel, you CAN have 2.5 cm, but it would be drawn at 5cm.

Surface area of a particle = 1 / sharpness

If you have the newtons to destroy a 5cm by 5cm space, but only have 2.5cm of surface area, you will destroy a 2.5 cm by 10cm area, which means 1/2 of 2 pixels, destroying 2 pixels of terrain, because: you can not destroy 1/2 of a pixel of terrain, If the force is sufficient to pierce the pixel entirely through, then the pixel is still destroyed.

If you have a sharpness of 20, then you have a particle 1/20th of a pixel in size, and will create a 1/20 by 20 hole, (the same as volume as a 1x1 hole) but destroying 1/20 of a pixel, still destroys the entire pixel, so a 1/20 by 20 hole, is represented in game as a 1 by 20 hole, having destroyed 20 times the appropriate volume of terrain.


If you have a enough newtons of force to destroy 1 square pixel (5cm by 5cm) but a sharpness equivalent of being only 1 nanometer in size, (1.0 × 10^-7 cm, or 0.0000001cm) then it will penetrate an some huge number of pixels, with a 0.0000001cm wide hole, which a 0.0000001cm wide hole in 5cm, still destroys 5cm in CC.

However a 0.0000001cm hole in a 5cm by 5cm square, is still a hole in 1 pixel, and therefor the pixel is still destroyed.




In a nutshell, this is why sharpness acts so wacky, it is how many fractions of a pixel, that a particle is. it is the surface area.
Code:
a sharpness of 1 is a 5cm wide bullet. 1.968 caliber, which does not exist. thats a brick, almost 2" diameter bullet?
3.93~ sharpness is 0.50 caliber  (1.27 cm)
8.9477~ sharpness = .22 caliber (0.5588 cm)
because 20 pixels is 1 meter, 1 pixel is 5 cm, and particles are 1/sharpness pixels in size.


Last edited by Miles_T3hR4t on Mon Nov 22, 2010 9:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Mon Nov 22, 2010 9:20 am
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Post Re: Hay guise i'm finding sense in Sharpness.
BUMP FOR SUMMARY POST (because the thread hasn't been in new posts since like 12 hours ago, and I edited my above post to add something important.) I spent alot of work on this and I dont want it to disappear in a list of forgotten threads.

Code:
(1/(mass*velocity))*integrity = integrity/(mass*velocity) = sharpness
because
(1/5)*5 = 5/5
or
(1/16)5 = 5/16


Code:
I/MV = S
Multiply by MV on both sides
I = MVS
If Mass times velocity times sharpness is greater than integrity, it will penetrate, and lose velocity.


Code:
M = Mass
S = Sharpness
V = Velocity
F = Force
I = Integrity of pixel
X = reduction in force
Y = velocity after destroying a pixel

MSV = Force, or F
F - Integrity = X
X/M/S = Y

MSV = F
F-I = X
X/M/S = Y
MSY = F-I


and in English.
Mass x velocity x sharpness = total force
total force - integrity = the variable X
X divided by mass divided by sharpness = the new velocity
New velocity x mass x sharpness = Old force - integrity.
Code:
20 pixels = 1 meter
1 pixel = 1/20 meter
1 pixel = 5cm
a particle's size is 1/sharpness of a  pixel, or (1/S) of 5cm in surface contact


1 particle is ALWAYS displayed as 1 pixel in size because you can't draw half a pixel, BUT for the sake of PHYSICS, at 5CM per pixel, you CAN have a 2.5 cm particle (sharpness 2), but it would be drawn as a 5cm particle (1 pixel).

5cm by 5cm of destruction = 2.5 cm by 10cm of destruction. In CC, 1/2 a pixel by 2 pixels, is still 1 pixel by 2 pixels.
a 0.0000001cm hole in a 5cm by 5cm square, is still a hole in 1 pixel, and therefor the pixel is still destroyed. (0.0000001cm hole creates a 5cm hole, because its CC)

In a nutshell, this is why sharpness acts so wacky, it is how many fractions of a pixel, that a particle is. it is the surface area.
Code:
a sharpness of 1 is a 5cm wide bullet. 1.968 caliber, which does not exist. thats a brick, almost 2" diameter bullet?
3.93~ sharpness is 0.50 caliber  (1.27 cm)
8.9477~ sharpness = .22 caliber (0.5588 cm)
because 20 pixels is 1 meter, 1 pixel is 5 cm, and particles are 1/sharpness pixels in size.


--End bump.


Mon Nov 22, 2010 9:32 pm
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