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 Mass, Sharpness, Velocity and Penetration 
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Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:50 am
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Post Mass, Sharpness, Velocity and Penetration
Yes, I said "penetration." Let your imagination run wild.

Anyway... so, I'm getting used to the whole modding system by making a set of "real" guns. So far, I've made a Glock 17, an M1911A1, a USP, (all handguns) and a MP7A1. (a submachine gun... or "personal defense weapon" if you like) I pretty much understand everything, but I'm having some odd issues and wonder if I can get some light shed on the mysteries of the inner workings of CC.

First, a random comment: I'm in love with the physics. Its about time games were made with real physical principles of mass and velocity, instead of "guns with arbitrary damage levels." It may not mean much to players, but its damn intuitive for modders.

So anyway, I'm going all-out on these guns, trying to be as realistic as possible. So, here's a rundown of the "ballistics" I have set up.

Glock 17-
Mass: 0.008 (pretty much the same as the basic SMG round)
Velocity: 351 (m/s, like wikipedia tells me. like, I said, realism)
USP-
Mass: 0.01 (a bit heavier)
Velocity: 348 (a teensy bit slower)
M1911A1-
Mass: 14.9 (quite a bit heavier)
Velocity: 244 (quite a bit slower)
MP7A1-
Mass: 0.0016 (really light yo)
Velocity: 725 (really FAST yo)

The sharpness for the three handguns is 250 (like the original SMG round), and its 750 (50 more than the original AK-47 round) for the MP7.

So, I'd sort of like to know how exactly Mass, Velocity and Sharpness are factored. Like, does anyone know the formula used? Also, it'd be nice to know how this affects the amount of damage done, as well as how much the shot penetrates through solid stuff.

The MP7 doesn't penetrate much through solids, but the three handguns penetrate 3 to 4 times more. I assume this has something to do with the difference in mass. I suppose this isn't too big of a deal as they don't penetrate hugely, but it still seems odd. the MP7 is supposed to be able to fire armor-piercing rounds. How much sharpness would I have to throw at it to make it that effective?

I'm going for realism quite a bit here, and sharpness is the one thing that's throwing me, since I don't really know how to base the value in reality. Like, I'd guess a rifle round would be sharper than a pistol round, but I don't know by how much, or even what the individual vaules would be. Then when its armor piercing I don't really know at all.

It'd be cool to put together a "standard sharpness" rating list, giving a general sense of what kinds of bullets have what kind of sharpness. It'd be helpful for other modders who were interested in realism. And no, I'm not just requesting this or anything, I'd definitly want to be part of it. Learnin' 'bout guns is fun.

Another issue is the fact that when a bullet gets fired, the damn thing just goes on forever no matter how low I o set that "lifetime" stat. What does that represent? Frames? Like would a life of 30 be one second?

And an issue not really related to bullets: I set up the stance values so the actor holds the gun right, but they seem to change when facing left and right. (that is, the hands seem off when I turn the actor to face left, but the hands are fine while facing right) Is it just like that, or am I missing something? Or maybe I'm just looking at it wrong.


Sun Jul 22, 2007 1:56 pm
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Post Re: Mass, Sharpness, Velocity and Penetration
damage has nothing to do with the rounds from the guns AT ALL damage is all in the actor code


Sun Jul 22, 2007 2:13 pm
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Post Re: Mass, Sharpness, Velocity and Penetration
Wait... what? So no matter how you set the guns or the bullets, they always do the same damage? I don't quite beleive that... how is it that people make really strong sniper rifles and stuff then?


Sun Jul 22, 2007 2:39 pm
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Post Re: Mass, Sharpness, Velocity and Penetration
p3lb0x wrote:
damage has nothing to do with the rounds from the guns AT ALL damage is all in the actor code

I thought the mass, speed and sharpness all affected the damage. =/
The only damage related variables in the actor are the HP and "gethitbymos", which really don't have that much to do with what we're talking about.


Sun Jul 22, 2007 2:41 pm
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Post Re: Mass, Sharpness, Velocity and Penetration
the really strong snipers fire more than one round. the only thing mass shapness and speed affects are recoil and penetration of both actors and the ground


Sun Jul 22, 2007 2:52 pm
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Post Re: Mass, Sharpness, Velocity and Penetration
The higher the mass of the projectile is also affects on the chances of enemies limbs getting torn off


Sun Jul 22, 2007 3:05 pm
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Post Re: Mass, Sharpness, Velocity and Penetration
MaximDude wrote:
The higher the mass of the projectile is also affects on the chances of enemies limbs getting torn off

oooh yeah... and that :Z


Sun Jul 22, 2007 3:48 pm
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Post Re: Mass, Sharpness, Velocity and Penetration
I have tried to make a million and one things as realistic as possible to given statistics.

The engine just does not work the same was as real life. The things that effect "damage" and lethality in real guns are not mirrored in the CC engine. :[

You can make the weapons real weight and real muzzlevelocity, but usually the rounds will not be "realistic," in terms of specifications.

It makes me sad.


Sun Jul 22, 2007 4:38 pm
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Post Re: Mass, Sharpness, Velocity and Penetration
You can add alot of realism to CC, but it will take time

You will have to make like 6 or 7 different wounds with different damages and stuff


Sun Jul 22, 2007 4:43 pm
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Post Re: Mass, Sharpness, Velocity and Penetration
As for your question about lifetime, set it as low as possible. I'm pretty sure 1 is the lowest, and that's still pretty good for something like a dogger. If your guns are going too fast, try that.


Sun Jul 22, 2007 6:09 pm
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Post Re: Mass, Sharpness, Velocity and Penetration
To answer your question.

Sharpness: This does infact effect damage, the sharper an object is the higher chance of it going through the target and creating an Exitwound which also causes damage (I may not have made a mod yet but I know my stuff!)
Mass: If someone throws a pebble at you, does it hurt? Now if another object hit you at the same speed, but it was a boulder, would it hurt more or less?
Velocity: Same as sharpness really.

Yes. They all effect damage. There are codes in the actor.inis that effect how much damage the actors take, but the guns themselves are the biggest factor.


Sun Jul 22, 2007 6:09 pm
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Post Re: Mass, Sharpness, Velocity and Penetration
they dont affect damage they trigger the damage in the actor, you could say that the actor is damaging it self


Sun Jul 22, 2007 7:19 pm
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Post Re: Mass, Sharpness, Velocity and Penetration
How foolish can you be, wounds cause a slight abount of damage every so often, and last for a short while, causing a "bleed-out" effect when you shoot something. But there is also damage from the impact(this should be obvious to anyone with the three braincells required to see that when shot an actor instatly loses a lot more health than a single burst from a wound would inflict).

The damage caused by a wound on a robot is like 5 damage total.




Over the course of THIRTY SECONDS.


Sun Jul 22, 2007 10:11 pm
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Post Re: Mass, Sharpness, Velocity and Penetration
OKAAAAY... i just looked it up and burst damage is ALOT smaller than the damage of the initial hit... so i guess i was wrong....


Sun Jul 22, 2007 11:25 pm
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Post Re: Mass, Sharpness, Velocity and Penetration
Okay, first:

I seem to have solved some problems from before. I had something set wrong so that the bullet I made wasn't being fired, so thats why the damn things were going really far and blasting through materials regardless of how low I set stuff. What I was setting wasn't even read.

Okay, as for everything else... it seems that if I actually want realistic reactions to weapons, I'm gonna have to "scale" some of the values. This should be fine, as long as the scaled values are based on real values. I'll mess with it a bit later. Maybe I can just double mass values or something.


Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:59 am
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