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 Prison Escape: Episode 1 
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Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:10 am
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Post Re: Coalition Base #836-AOC - Full-Fledged Mission!
I've gotta say it made me think quite a bit.

However, i didn't like that, so i just hacked through the wall with my shovel and got the gattling gun first. After that it was a breeze, i just cut rifts in the map until my fire found a guard's head.

While i don't want to flame here i feel the mission has some serious problems that cut down on the player's enjoyment. I know it took lots of work (and that shows), so i don't mean to invalidate that. There's just a lot of criticism to be made.

It was very interesting to play, but i can't say i had much fun. I beat it because it made me angry enough that i simply HAD to dominate it.

It was too frustrating and tedious when played as intended and too simple (and equally tedious) when played the way i dreamed up. The coding is elegant as far as i can tell, and that's what i enjoyed about it.

I don't think the average player would like this very much. I speak for myself when i say that CC attractive is because of the unique and awesome action the engine allows for, and for the physics. The physics work against you the entire time, and every shooting-encounter has to be solved by one or two shots to the head.

The structure of the mission is very, very intricate and well-implemented. It's a shame that the very structure that sets it apart doesn't allow us to have very much in-game fun: While there's nearly no structure in Skirmish battles there's so much freedom/possibility that it gets cheap, fast. The exact opposite is true in this mission, the structure strangles away the very thing that makes this a fun game to play.

I'm not saying that tactics and structure aren't fun, and i'm not saying that you should turn this into a rambo-style mission. I'm saying that the player isn't allowed to figure out the tactics he must implement for himself. He has to do trial and error (in a situation that allows for maybe a 2% margin for error, over and over and over) or he has to cheat a little bit (snag a gattling gun and tear all the walls down).

Some changes you could make that wouldn't change the need for delicacy, but would make it more fun/accessible:

-Alarms that send in lots of easy-to-kill guards once you've gotten some weapons. Maybe an entire objective-sequence where they try to reinforce the base and you have to keep them from doing so.

-A weapons-locker that puts you on par with the people you're killing earlier on in the mission.

-Guards that patrol. That way there is always more than one option concerning where to set an ambush and it gives the player more freedom with their own tactics.

-More open spaces in which to fight

-the ability to not only collect weapons, but also armor. This could maybe be in the same spirit as the "heal station".

-The ability to control the guys you set free (for one life, at least)

I guess what i mean to say with all this is give the player more options and more action. The cliff-hanger ending suggests that there's "trouble at the base" so maybe that's when we'll start having more fun.

In short you've done something original and groundbreaking, but it simply wasn't a good time. I think you can totally salvage it and make it fun, but i can't give it anything more than a C+ in its current state.


Wed Nov 26, 2008 2:08 am
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Post Re: Coalition Base #836-AOC - Full-Fledged Mission!
I liked it a lot, though it was incredibly frustrating at times. I also chewed through stuff with a shovel.... The heavy flamer is ungodly >____>. I love your choice for the end song, it gives an OH SHI RUN AWAY! Vibe that I like a lot. :D
EDIT: Was the dropship stalling at the end intentional? I started panicking when I picked up all my soldiers and then it sat on the platform and would not budge, and after 12 or so seconds it lifted off by itself.


Wed Nov 26, 2008 2:40 am
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Post Re: Coalition Base #836-AOC - Full-Fledged Mission!
Thanks everyone for the comments and criticism, especially to Prod and Allen.
I personally find the level fun because I enjoy stealth mixed with action, but that's my point of view.
I WANTED another point of view, but my beta tester decided he had better things to do and buggered off the day of release.
I was hoping I'd get some comments like this that could help me add to the game.
I can certainly release a version that includes more action for those that prefer it, but I wanted to make a stealth mission to see if it worked. For some, it did, not so much for others.
Here's some stuff in response to Allen:
1. I left the guards dropping down because I wanted to set it apart from Fort Malgar a bit, as well as give a change of pace. I can easily add in a drop point for them to come down, and I might do that in a version that features more action.
2. I actually did have a weapons locker, but it didn't work. Maybe I'll change the YAK47/Compact Rifle at the beginning to something a bit bigger, again, in the action version.
3. See #1.
4. The way the level is structured, that would require a lot of work. Again, action version, maybe.
5. I actually had this idea just before I released, but it's not as easy at it seems. It is possible though.
6. I was considering at first making the guys you save controllable and make them your extra lives, but I had trouble fitting them in with the level design. I was thinking that perhaps they all had a weapon, but it doesn't really make sense. By the end I decided that you would end up stumbling over yourself too much and that it just wasn't worth all the coding.
Lord Tim, I did fix the timer, but putting all the for X in X together actually seemed to greatly increase lag, so I'll leave that for now.

I've just released an update that fixes a few things for people:
-Compact Rifle replaced with YAK47.
-Gibs from doors don't crush anything.
-Timer fixed to realtime, this may be why for some people it seemed harder (my testing computer are both slow, so the countdown is also slower). YES, this means the timer takes longer to run out now.
-1 loss at beginning is no longer there.
-2 extra lives.

I fully intend for this to be community-based. If you have any ideas, let me know and I will try to implement them.


Wed Nov 26, 2008 2:55 am
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Data Realms Elite
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Post Re: Coalition Base #836-AOC - Full-Fledged Mission!
Kept on dying, the guys are too twitchy, I get blended if I stay still long enough to shoot, hell the pod needs a few grenades to get to.
The boulders are easy to move, the don't settle.

And I kill the allies before I get to the drop zone, so, why are they alive? ( Is it that they travel to the pod in an undead stasis )


Wed Nov 26, 2008 3:43 am
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Post Re: Coalition Base #836-AOC - Full-Fledged Mission!
I love missions like this.

There should be more.

Also, rather than have the three grenades spread haphazardly in a pit, put them in a box that you have to break open.


Wed Nov 26, 2008 4:39 am
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Post Re: Coalition Base #836-AOC - Full-Fledged Mission!
Believe me, it's worse. Break the box, they all explode.
The new download, assuming it's working, have them in a very shallow pit now.


Wed Nov 26, 2008 4:42 am
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Post Re: Coalition Base #836-AOC - Full-Fledged Mission!
haha, second time I tried to pick up the grenades I blew up spectacularly. I knew it would happen at some point, but it was exciting nevertheless.
Fun game, I'm loving all the scripting you did for me, but like has been said before, it can get to be a bit redundant. You kinda have to crawl for half the map, and crawling is really slow.
Also the doors take for friggen EVER to destroy. And I mean fo EVA. 30 shots I think I remember from the older build, but it might be off. Maybe it was more like 60 shots for the bottom and the top. Anyway, the guns you give out fire too slowly, and the shovel doesn't even work against doors.


Wed Nov 26, 2008 6:34 am
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Location: Ukraine,Odessa in the ASC bunker-base
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Post Re: Coalition Base #836-AOC - Full-Fledged Mission!
The mission is awesome . But i dont understand for what we have that "portal" . When that thing was going to blow i was entering that portal . I cant understand why i cant get in . I understood that i need to go upward from the base . But there were no time :(

One thing i cant understand: why did i digged gold if and bought PA light if i cant control him ...


Wed Nov 26, 2008 1:46 pm
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Post Re: Coalition Base #836-AOC - Full-Fledged Mission!
You can only order weapons unfortunately. Just let the rocket land and dump the guns you ordered and go pick them up.

I bough a AAL marine's neo colt + riot shield. Man I was unstoppable. : D


Wed Nov 26, 2008 3:27 pm
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Post Re: Coalition Base #836-AOC - Full-Fledged Mission!
Cool . I should try to destroy the base with something like a JUDGEMENT . xD . By the way could you make version for two players ?


Last edited by grenade on Wed Nov 26, 2008 6:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Wed Nov 26, 2008 3:32 pm
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Post Re: Coalition Base #836-AOC - Full-Fledged Mission!
numgun wrote:
You can only order weapons unfortunately. Just let the rocket land and dump the guns you ordered and go pick them up.

I bough a AAL marine's neo colt + riot shield. Man I was unstoppable. : D

I bought one of my grenade launchers. Really handy in all those bendy corridors.

This was a fairly satisfying mission, and its about time we started seeing some real missions like this. Too bad I can't sneak through with one of my Shinobi...

And I always appreciate some good music.


Wed Nov 26, 2008 5:41 pm
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Post Re: Coalition Base #836-AOC - Full-Fledged Mission!
@Grenade

It's not a portal, it's a healing machine, you come out with full health and limbs. You are meant to get to the top of the base next to your allies and a drop ship comes to pick you all up.


Feedback:
The level itself was fun and interesting but it shows how clunky the controls are for this game. The characters don't move convincingly and getting into a vent is not worth the trouble and effort. Most of the time he'd get his legs jammed in front of him and refuse to get into the crawling position. This isn't a reflection on your coding or design of the mod (which I think is great) but more on the game engine. I think they should consider removing the physics element for movement for live actors and just make them walk without getting stuck all the time.


Wed Nov 26, 2008 5:50 pm
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Post Re: Coalition Base #836-AOC - Full-Fledged Mission!
It's an actor problem, not cortex command, spinaljack.
Crawling offsets and stuff aren't meant for vents.

TLB, I remember you making awesome mods from when I was new and you were only here for a week. You're keeping up the quality in my opinion, keep it up.

But, could you make a stealth mission?
I know everyone wants a action-kill everything mission, but I'm not quite as skilled at CC. I personally want a single vent, maybe with a few enemies in it, that leads to the exit. You can leave the vent, but you'll be pelleted by bullets. Also, under a few vent openings are enemies, so the falling fragments weaken the enemy for you.

Just me personally.


Wed Nov 26, 2008 6:06 pm
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Post Re: Coalition Base #836-AOC - Full-Fledged Mission!
It's not easy to do stealth in CC, and this is the closest I could get.
For those of you that prefer action, I'm working on one with enemy reinforcements and the like. It should be out sometime today.


Wed Nov 26, 2008 6:21 pm
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Post Re: Coalition Base #836-AOC - Full-Fledged Mission!
No stealth? I frikkin did a sneaky maneuver that the coalition guy near the healing pod couldnt expect. I fire the auto shot pistol that I stole from another guard at the platform which is right above the guard. He gets distracted by the piercing bullets and turns around and fires a few rounds.

While he's doing that, I silently dropped down without using my jetpack and sneaked behind him with a shovel and smacked his head clean off.


Or the guy with the gatlingun.

I went through all the trouble with the long vent shaft just to get behind him. I was at the vent exit while the lid was still intact.
I pushed out my shovel through the lid and knocked the gatlingun out his hands. Then he fell on his arse and I smacked off his legs. Then I came out of the vent and finished him off mortal combat style.


Or even the first guy that is right infront of you guarding your cell. Just keep digging through the bars and you can maim the poor guard nicely.


TLB, please include more stealth in future missions, where you are given routes or tools to sneak up on your foes in a way or another and do your dirty work or simply fool them and leave them standing where they were like idiots. Or simply avoid them altogether. Stealth is fun and action is fun. Its great to have both.
This mission achieves it well. The long vent shaft in the beginning might be annoyingly long, but still, after youre past that, the mission continues with lots of variety and youre the one who chooses how to do the next objective and in which way.


My only complaint is that you able to finish other objectives before youre even done with the previous one or the one you are supposed to do. Something that would either block your way or atleast give you a reminder that youre supposed to do this and that and youre going the wrong way and so on.


Wed Nov 26, 2008 6:40 pm
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