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 Poor moderating team 
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Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:28 am
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Post Poor moderating team
Alright since Grif is a ♥♥♥♥♥, and Duh says to use this subsection, I decided to bring this to everyone's attention.
Oh and because Duh told me to, this thread is 100% approved.

Code:
[17:45] <Grif> Warguy has 5 board warnings and 49 posts
[17:45] <Grif> >10% warning rate = ace
[17:45] <Vereus> lol
[17:48] <Dauss> :|
13[17:49] <+Kelas> that uh
13[17:49] <+Kelas> means ban
13[17:49] <+Kelas> just so you bad moderators know
[17:49] <Dauss> Kelas: http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/2/27874/600107-oh_you_super.jpg
[17:49] <Grif> actually
[17:49] <Grif> whatever I declare is worth a ban
[17:49] <Grif> means a ban
13[17:49] <+Kelas> <3 Dauss
13[17:49] <+Kelas> see: poor moderator judgment
[17:50] <scannie> when it reaches the point of having to rm -rf / give me a call
[17:50] <scannie> :P
[17:50] <Grif> .kb Kelas poor moderator judgement
15[17:50] * opertits sets mode: +b *!*@Rizon-813CB354.dsl.aus2tx.sbcglobal.net
15[17:50] * You were kicked by opertits (poor moderator judgement)


This board, before it was broken, had it set to auto-ban members for 3+ warnings at variable lengths depending on the amount of warnings. This was to prevent such users from continuing unbanned. Congrats Grif, your poor judgment is the cancer killing DRL.

Kelas is still confusing the "Change is bad" mentality with the "Righteous protester" mentality. Go ahead and keep being wrong; we promise not to ban you until you get too vociferously wrong.

The thread was subsequently locked. Congrats Grif, you are killing productive conversations that could possibly lead to this forum being fixed.

Duh made a judgment call on how long a user's post should be, if it were to be controlled by the addition of a PHPBB3 addon. WITHOUT consulting the forum or other moderators/admins.

If it were up to him, you couldn't even tweet to this board.

Yeah, it's a lot of hassle to moderate sober too.

Adding and replacing files in a database is hard. So is handling reports I hear.

Here's another interesting point

Our admins, save for scancode, obviously don't know a ♥♥♥♥ thing, YOUR moderating staff knows it.

This is all from one thread. This is one example of how poor our moderating team's judgment is. I don't have access to the moderation logs anymore, so many many more examples of poor moderation go on behind all of our backs all day, every day.

This boards REQUIRES more addons, more automation, more democracy, and overall, MORE moderators. LOTS MORE.

Weasel broke the IRC and refused to fix it. Weasel BROKE this board and refuses to do anything to fix and and or appoint someone who CAN/WILL fix and update the forums. I have told Weasel numerous times that our board version is several revisions behind and that not only will updating fix all of the technical details on this forum but it would also update it's functions to be more user friendly and more resistant to attacks. All of such PMs went ignored, despite how quick and easy a job it is to update a PHPBB3 forum.

weasel wrote:
Right now my big concern is that we don't have a large enough moderation team. More moderators doesn't necessarily mean over-moderation; it gives moderators a chance to communicate and come to group decisions instead of the current knee-jerk mechanic we have in place (which can result in too soft, as well as too hard, consequences).

Unfortunately, I can't magically create "new moderators" out of the blue. We need more forum participants first.


This was sent to me Fri Mar 05, 2010 at 1:14 pm.

Has Weasel done anything to fix the issues he sees? Obviously not, he "hired" Grif, and so far, we've seen nothing but these problematic "Knee-jerk" reactions from him. And still we have absolutely NO group moderation, as per Weasels wishes. Gee, there are PHPBB3 modifications that allow such things. But he won't install them.

Take a look at your moderation and administration team; DRL. These are the men that lead you and determine your DRL fate. Do you feel comfortable knowing this? Do you like the idea that a user with multiple board warnings for blatant trolling/spamming get to go on day after day because people like Grif will it so? Do you like that members with GOOD messages, with REAL SOLUTIONS to our MULTITUDE of problems are silently snuffed out just because what they have to say isn't exactly nice, or agrees with the powers that be?

This board is an extension of DRL as a whole. This represents the game, and Data. This is why Weasel was hired. To create a more chill atmosphere and boost the sales of Cortex Command. Take a look at what has happened since Weasel joined. Nothing is chill anymore. Nothing is working properly. Piracy of Cortex Command has increased significantly.

The ball is in your court, moderators, admins. I speak for the forum as a whole when I say that our current situation is ♥♥♥♥ up and something needs to be done. We need admins that will do things, and listen to the community, we need moderators that are willing to work WITH the forum, not against the forum.

I am willing to keep this as civil as possible. If you are capable of removing all sarcasm from your posts, feel free to reply. Any hint of hostility will be ignored. A copy of this entire post and of every reply will be preserved locally for future evidence, if needed.


Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:31 am
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Post Re: Poor moderating team
I agree, although the choices being made aren't as bad as you're making them seem.

One problem is that weasel is working on many other things, not just this forum. If weasel really is too busy, perhaps a new, or additional, forum assistant would help?

Kelas wrote:
weasel wrote:
Right now my big concern is that we don't have a large enough moderation team. More moderators doesn't necessarily mean over-moderation; it gives moderators a chance to communicate and come to group decisions instead of the current knee-jerk mechanic we have in place (which can result in too soft, as well as too hard, consequences).

Unfortunately, I can't magically create "new moderators" out of the blue. We need more forum participants first.

I'm sure you could find people willing to do the job.
If you don't trust people, weasel, maybe you could make a 'minor moderator'?


Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:48 am
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Post Re: Poor moderating team
I'm not disagreeing or agreeing with you, but how do you know that piracy of CC has increased?


Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:52 am
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Post Re: Poor moderating team
Guess what, Kelas? Taking pot shots at every mod in that thread isn't exactly civilized discussion.
Also, look at this page. Do you see any admins other than weasel, data and scancode? No, you don't. This is why every last addon you want isn't going to get installed, if any of them - scancode doesn't want to, weasel has told us many times that he isn't comfortable installing PHPBB addons and data is off doing other things.
For the same reason, the mod team isn't going to expand, because scancode has nothing to do with it, weasel doesn't see it as necessary and data is off doing other things.
And just for the record, the forum hasn't auto-banned after 3 warnings since long, LONG before weasel was even part of the picture. It was disabled for the same reason the minimum character count was disabled: we trust our moderators to use their judgment. As far as the administrators and pretty much all of the community except for you and this guy, we're not doing that bad a job.
Keep in mind that if we add more moderators, that's more people to keep track of and keep them accountable for what they do. I also don't really see why we need more moderators. If you really hate the current team that much, wouldn't you just prefer to replace us? More moderators doesn't mean better-informed decisions, it means more disparate decisions. Quite frankly, everybody on the team right now is on the same page in terms of what is and isn't allowed, and that's more than I can say for most forums.


Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:55 am
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Post Re: Poor moderating team
Kelas, you do not "speak for the whole forum", I, for one, disagree with essentially every "point" you made, if your rants could be called points. And you say this is a topic for civilized discussion, and then do nothing but yell at moderators for some hyperbolicized issues that supposedly are tearing the forum, nay, the WORLD apart!


Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:57 am
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Post Re: Poor moderating team
To restate: I agree with everything below weasel's quote. I think this is more of a problem with admins than moderators.


Mon Apr 19, 2010 1:01 am
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Post Re: Poor moderating team
Quote:
This board, before it was broken, had it set to auto-ban members for 3+ warnings at variable lengths depending on the amount of warnings. This was to prevent such users from continuing unbanned. Congrats Grif, your poor judgment is the cancer killing DRL.


Because clearly I was the one personally responsible for this decision. Clearly..
Besides which, do you honestly feel that a hard set, unbreakable THREE WARNINGS EQUALS ONE BAN NO EXCEPTIONS rule is an improvement? I mean, you bring this up as your first point, and it's easily one of the silliest things I've ever heard. Arbitration you might disagree with, but unwavering lightning-bans accomplish nothing.

And, in case you're wondering, of those five warnings, only one was made by me. My judgment barely entered the equation. In the case of Warguy in particular, I sent him a PM after my board warning, and he struck me as both apologetic and intelligent. He happened to get more warnings for various unrelated, minor infractions that were easily attributable to failure to read the rules, which is not a bannable offense, otherwise virtually everyone on this forum would be banned.

Quote:
The thread was subsequently locked. Congrats Grif, you are killing productive conversations that could possibly lead to this forum being fixed.


No, I was keeping a thread from being helplessly on topic and simply confusing the people the topic was originally intended to reach. A global announcement regarding a rule change is not the place to protest violently for changes to the entire structure of these forums. A thread like this one is. Hence, this topic is open, while the other is not!

Quote:
This is all from one thread. This is one example of how poor our moderating team's judgment is. I don't have access to the moderation logs anymore, so many many more examples of poor moderation go on behind all of our backs all day, every day.

This boards REQUIRES more addons, more automation, more democracy, and overall, MORE moderators. LOTS MORE.


Oh yes, the dreaded "poor moderator judgement" conspiracy. It's not, perhaps, quite as glamorous as anything in the Da Vinci Code, but far more nefarious. I mean, really, Kelas, do you believe anything that you're saying? I still contend that you're being mindlessly contrary for no purpose whatsoever.

We don't need MORE moderators. Not in the slightest. We've got less than fifty active users, and close to ten active moderators. Sure, there's less active and new users always coming and going, but it's laughable to think that the answer to the problem is more moderators.

Quote:
Weasel BROKE this board and refuses to do anything to fix and and or appoint someone who CAN/WILL fix and update the forums. I have told Weasel numerous times that our board version is several revisions behind and that not only will updating fix all of the technical details on this forum but it would also update it's functions to be more user friendly and more resistant to attacks. All of such PMs went ignored, despite how quick and easy a job it is to update a PHPBB3 forum.


Perhaps (call me crazy now) the reason Weasel isn't responding to your text messages is because you verbally assaulted him over IRC, a fact that you did not even attempt to dispute in our brief conversation in IRC just now. In my opinion, taking advice from a guy who just recently called you a "dumb ♥♥♥♥♥♥" is probably not the highest thing on a list of priorities!

Quote:
Has Weasel done anything to fix the issues he sees? Obviously not, he "hired" Grif, and so far, we've seen nothing but these problematic "Knee-jerk" reactions from him.


The only knee-jerk reactions I see are yours, to everything I do. I have somewhere above 150 logged moderation actions, and I've seen you take issue at maybe three of them. All three of those were directed at you. Perhaps you are extrapolating a tad too far on your personal experience with me?

Quote:
This board is an extension of DRL as a whole. This represents the game, and Data. This is why Weasel was hired. To create a more chill atmosphere and boost the sales of Cortex Command. Take a look at what has happened since Weasel joined. Nothing is chill anymore. Nothing is working properly. Piracy of Cortex Command has increased significantly.


Opinion, then an opinion, then another opinion. Do you have any kind of basis for any of these claims? No? I didn't think so.

Quote:
I speak for the forum as a whole when I say that our current situation is ♥♥♥♥ up and something needs to be done.


You do? I wasn't aware the forum as a whole had vested quite so much power in you. Was there some kind of secret election I missed? Dang, I definitely would have enjoyed running my FURIOUSLY STOMPING BOOTS OF BAN all over it. Because that's all I do here; lock topics and ban people who disagree with me.

Quote:
Any hint of hostility will be ignored.


You've already broken this rule both ways; you have been both hostile and responded to hostility, both within your post and on IRC. How about this for a request, Kelas: stop being such a ♥♥♥♥ hypocrite?


Mon Apr 19, 2010 1:11 am
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Post Re: Poor moderating team
Thanks, Grif, that about summarizes my feelings, too.


Mon Apr 19, 2010 1:14 am
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Post Re: Poor moderating team
Alright I think that the mod team is doing a great job, but I still think that the forum has been flooded by useless little shits that the forum gains nothing by having them and loses a great deal by catering to them.

And it's not like a ban is that big of a deal, unless you're talking about permabans. A day, a few days, even a week. That's not really a big deal. Just a little time out to let them know not to do that. A warning means little and accomplishes nothing.


Mon Apr 19, 2010 1:18 am
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Post Re: Poor moderating team
I never said you were responsible for that decision. But yes, I do think it is better. 3 warnings = 6 hours, 4 = 1 day, and so on. Of course warnings would have to be withheld save for cases where the user is flaming, or doing something destructive. Not necroing etc. I understand that people don't read the rules and they consequently aren't followed, but that can be easily changed. Other forums, when signing up, display for you their rules and require you to read them before you create your account. Something like that can be easily implemented.

You may say we don't, but Weasel does. I'm going to agree with him on this one. We do however, regardless of team size, need some form of group moderation. Be it checks and balances, a majority "approves" actions, etc.

IRC moved on quickly, but, my dispute to my verbal assault of Weasel is that since then, despite this, I have civilly conversed with him about this forum. Mostly bringing up previously stated points. (Brought up by other users)

It's easy to point out what you see done to yourself, I can't relate to anyone else on this board who feels wronged, due to their situations being different.

I have people that agree with me, and so long as I have them, I speak for this forum.


Mon Apr 19, 2010 1:28 am
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Post Re: Poor moderating team
Kelas, you claimed to speak for the forum as a WHOLE, but I disagree with you, so you DON'T speak for the forum as a whole.


Mon Apr 19, 2010 1:31 am
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Post Re: Poor moderating team
Do you agree with the president? Maybe not. But he speaks for this country as a whole.


Mon Apr 19, 2010 1:32 am
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Post Re: Poor moderating team
You aren't the leader of DRL though.


Mon Apr 19, 2010 1:35 am
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Post Re: Poor moderating team
Actually, in the IRC quote you yourself posted, you pretty clearly tell him that we are bad moderators, then after being told that it's his choice whether he bans them or not, say it's poor moderator judgment. If you're trying to mince words and tell us that you were speaking generally, I think the first section of your post more than demonstrates that you aren't. You're singling out moderators who disagree with you and insulting them.
Don't pretend that you're suddenly no longer hostile - there's a massive change in wording from the OP to the one you just made, and no amount of backpedaling is going to change that.


Mon Apr 19, 2010 1:36 am
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Post Re: Poor moderating team
And in general, it isn't poor judgment to allow a user to accumulate 5 warnings? Or was it poor judgment to warn him 5 times for small infractions such as Grif pointed out?

In general there is yes, poor judgment, the moderating team in my opinion is bad.

I could go through and "single out" every moderator on this forum. But that wouldn't be singling out now would it?


Mon Apr 19, 2010 1:40 am
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