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 DOTA 2 - The thread 
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Post Re: DOTA 2 - The thread
her old upgrade increased the damage to 1250 and made it pierce spell immunity. with default magic resist, that damage is 937.5.
her new upgrade makes it pure damage, which isnt affected by any resistance. it does 950.
her new upgrade actually makes her do more damage than the old one, and cant be affected by spell resistance. on old agh's, if someone had extra magic resistance in any way, it would do less damage. now it doesnt. it's better than before.

the only time the old aghs was better was vs. a visage with no points in gravekeeper's cloak, since it would do 1125 damage then. but if you have level 3 ult and aghs and visage has no points in cloak, hes doing something very, very wrong.


Sun Dec 07, 2014 9:53 am
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Post Re: DOTA 2 - The thread
When I said "not as powerful anymore" I meant compared to earlier stages of the game :P

Against many heroes the ultimate won't bring them down to less than half of their health, unless you are targeting supports or squishy carries. You'll need a good deal of team play to not get killed in the process, since Lina is still pretty squishy.

I'm talking out of my experiences though, which is public matches in which my team has 2-3 carries and none of them is doing particularily well, guys that try to play completely by themselves ignoring the team or brazilians that know no english.


EDIT:

Also, this whole Phantom Assasin event is awesome. Got to play the thing twice yesterday and we denied the contract, now I own some cool set for Lone Druid (sucks I never play him though, not very newb friendly) and Kunkka (wanted to play him more, now I'll have some silly reason to do so).


Sun Dec 07, 2014 7:41 pm
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Post Re: DOTA 2 - The thread
I've been playing more with Lina now, it's much more fun to play than Crystal Maiden mostly because she's not as fragile. Generally at level 16, with Aghanim and Drums/Ghost Scepter she has around 1500 health I think, which is pretty good.

Also owning low health heroes as soon as you get the ultimate rocks. Stun, ult and if they survive, Q >:D


Fri Dec 12, 2014 8:59 pm
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Post Re: DOTA 2 - The thread
I could never really get into Lina just because Lion is better in nearly every way. Longer stun that's easier to land, a guaranteed-hit hex that disables for a looong time, the mana drain is great for both general sustain and also draining low mana heroes (RIP Wraith King), and his ultimate starts off stronger and its Agh's upgrade is arguably better because of the area effect. I think he's also a bit more durable.

Lina really only shines if you build her as a core so you can get the most out of her E, which is admittedly scary ♥♥♥♥ if you somehow farm up a Daedalus or Desolator on her, but in that position she's outshined by other cores.

Maybe she's a better offensive support in an aggro tri, provided there's someone who can set up a disable. Focusing on her first two spells lets her output a decent bit of damage along with an okay stun. Lion's longer disable times are good if you have someone that outputs a lot of DPS based on being near the enemy- Leshrac, Gyro, Clockwork, Juggernaut, etc- but are generally more defensive in a double lane and not much good by themselves in an offensive lane situation.

Although come to think of it, Lion and Lina are a fun lane combo. Double mega nuke ults.

...Lion, Lina, Sniper tri-lane. Absurd auto-attack range and damage, three hard disables, a slow, and three nukes. Cheese as ♥♥♥♥ but potentially hilarious.


Fri Dec 12, 2014 10:20 pm
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Post Re: DOTA 2 - The thread
I like Lion too, but the reason I like more Lina is because of her passive (only with her core stuffs she hits around 150-160 which is pretty neat), her higher mobility and because I'm still not very used to Tranquil Boots. Though I must agree on Lion's mana drain is amazing in many ways and his nuke with Aghanim is arguably better for team fights, because I tipically use Lina's just to kill weak heroes or chasing.

I was thinking about the Lina/Lion nukes and stuns/disables too. With Aghanim they can put around 2k damage on a single hero + the area damage of Lion. It'd be pretty insane. Plus their stuns can easily hit more than one guy, and Lion's hex makes for some easier area targeting. Sounds like a fun combo indeed.


Fri Dec 12, 2014 11:19 pm
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Post Re: DOTA 2 - The thread
lina is one of my favorite heroes
the only good way to build lina is as a core IMO. she's as ♥♥♥♥ as support as say, zeus is, because they're both just supposed to be glorified nukers. her stun is lackluster for a support role, and its the only utility she actually has. everything else just points to DAT DAMAGE. i dont know why you'd play her as support?
i'm convinced people only play her as support because shes INT and INT are supports, right?
at least her stun is AoE, but sven and lion are way better for that. she's lina the slayer, not lina the sit back and let your team fight for you after landing one spell
she has a huge kill potential that feeds off of early ganks and later, sustained right click damage that will melt your enemies
bloodstone is the best item for a core lina if you can get it before 20 minutes. literally unending pool of mana that increases with every kill, which you should be getting a lot of. she can also farm jungle camps and entire waves in like 3 seconds once she's upgraded her spells.
i dont usually get eul's because im usually good at landing LSA's (or people are bad at juking them) and bloodstone already provides enough mana regen.
if you're behind though you can get that, or an orchid, or even a sheepstick. the thing is, while sheepstick is super expensive, it's also good at all stages of the game. bloodstone needs to be obtained early to be worth it. orchid is nice because it silences and increases your damage by a lot, so if you want to pretend to be clinkz you can. euls obviously helps with landing LSAs, and sheepstick is obvious.

once you've got your first item major item (besides boots (which should probably be phase boots)) you can either look towards crits or deso. i prefer deso first because it's awesome and turns heroes into flaming husks. and hopefully, as your team's position 2 or even 1, nobody else is going to get it before you.
lina can work in any lane really, but safelane is probably the best. with a good support you can get loads of farm, harass, and even some kills (working with someone like rhasta or lion who have nice long disables) which will get you the gold you need to get ahead. you won't get solo XP, but that doesn't actually disadvantage you too much if you manage to get farm regardless. plus, you can farm the jungle between waves.
a lot of people discredit lina core because it's not that common, so if you dont get focused too hard or act like a retard you're actually a lot safer than you think. dont try to fight the enemy carry/s unless you can gank them or youre outfarmed.
my best game was with lina, though, admittedly, the enemies in that game were really stupid. as long as you pick your fights (including picking heroes at the start of the game; make sure you dont have someone like silencer or doom or AM to fugk ur but) wisely and gank often you can win games, helter swelter.


Sat Dec 13, 2014 6:07 am
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Post Re: DOTA 2 - The thread
She's better as a core than a support but she's not a particularly powerful core. Sure, if she's four levels ahead of everyone on the enemy team and has a 15 minute Bloodstone, but anyone can go ham when they're fed. There are much better cores. She's squishy, slow, not great at farming, and has a shitty attack animation (sort of offset by very large attack range but that's more useful for harassing than last hitting)

Also lol there are plenty of int carries and semi-carries. Death Prophet, Enchantress, Invoker, Leshrac, Lina, Furion, Oracle, Outworld Devourer, Puck, Pugna, Queen of Pain, Storm Spirit, Tinker, Windranger, Zeus. I hate when people assume int = support.


Sat Dec 13, 2014 5:16 pm
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Post Re: DOTA 2 - The thread
pvp me irl miggles


Sat Dec 13, 2014 8:10 pm
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Post Re: DOTA 2 - The thread
Ragdollmaster wrote:
She's better as a core than a support but she's not a particularly powerful core. Sure, if she's four levels ahead of everyone on the enemy team and has a 15 minute Bloodstone, but anyone can go ham when they're fed. There are much better cores. She's squishy, slow, not great at farming, and has a shitty attack animation (sort of offset by very large attack range but that's more useful for harassing than last hitting)

Also lol there are plenty of int carries and semi-carries. Death Prophet, Enchantress, Invoker, Leshrac, Lina, Furion, Oracle, Outworld Devourer, Puck, Pugna, Queen of Pain, Storm Spirit, Tinker, Windranger, Zeus. I hate when people assume int = support.

i can agree that she is outclassed by other carries
but how the ♥♥♥♥ do you think she's bad at farming? she's one of the best waveclearers in the entire game, and can farm stacked camps in less than 4 seconds
stun, nuke, and maybe a few right clicks and an entire wave or camp is dead. and she's capable of doing this before any carry could even dream of getting their battlefury, AND even then, she still farms faster. seriously, what are you even talking about?


Sun Dec 14, 2014 11:04 am
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Post Re: DOTA 2 - The thread
Let's talk about the early game. If you only put points into her Q and W she'll deal 560 damage at level 8 using those spells, and use up 265 mana for each combo. 560 is great if we're talking about easy stacked camps or creep waves, awful if we're talking about anything else (delicious hard camps, ancients) Now of course you'll be getting mana items on her, but at level 8 she'll have a grand total of 643 base mana. Assuming you're not on a mega kill streak at this point, you will probably have Arcane Boots, a Bracer, and a wand at best, maybe a casual Staff of Wizardry to build into a Eul's or another component of Bloodstone like a Soul Ring or Point Booster. So that's 643 + 250 + 78 + 150 = 1121 mana. Four combos, maybe five with the regen. Doesn't do ♥♥♥♥ to magic immune units, you're still squishy as all hell, and yes, there are plenty of carries who would have been farming faster the entire time, like Doom, Lifestealer, Ursa, and pretty much any carry in a good farming lane with a decent attack animation (Lina's got the advantage on like... Spirit Breaker, as far as landing right clicks goes) ♥♥♥♥, I'd even classify KOTL as a more sustainable wave clearer, his nuke might only do 500 damage but at least he has infinite mana sustain for it without having to rush a Bloodstone. Plus it affects mechanical units and can snipe enemy heroes from behind treelines. He's even not a bad semi-carry, the same items that give mobility/utility make him pretty durable and set up good damage opportunities (Eul's, Force, Atos, etc)

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and she's capable of doing this before any carry could even dream of getting their battlefury, AND even then, she still farms faster.


You fokken what m8? A decent pub Anti-Mage will have a Battle Fury at 15 minutes. It'll take him about three seconds to right-click through any camp and maybe six to go through Ancients. He also doesn't depend on mana sustain and moves faster. A Luna with maxed Glaives and decent right click damage (super hard to hit on Luna amirite?) will massacre camps. Gyro will do the same thing to heavily stacked camps with Flak Cannon. Sven's Great Cleave tears through everything from creep waves to ancient camps. Doom can literally instantly kill the hardest creep at a camp and get bonus gold for it, and do that twice if he gets a Midas for the long haul (Midas is a ridiculously good early pickup) Speaking of Midas, Lifestealer also likes his Midas. Axe just sits at camps and cuts through everything, works especially well with stacks when there's basically a 100% chance his Counter Helix will proc on every attack and hit everything inside, including magic immune units. Naga with a Radiance rush can farm both hard camps and a medium camp simultaneously every time her illusions are up, while also farming lane herself. Phantom Lancer is, well, Phantom Lancer.

And even in a support role, I'm not a fan of Lina because frankly, other supports just offer more

  • Lion: similar nukes, more disables, better sustain
  • Shadow Shaman: AoE nuke, more disables, pushing and huge DoT in teamfights
  • Witch Doctor: Potentially very long stun, heal, Maledict [best spell in game], huge multi-target nuke with a better Agh's upgrade
  • Skywrath: Better laning, more damage overall, longer ability disable with his silence, long range reliable slow
  • Sand King & Earthshaker: More durable, better/reliable initiations, teamfight nukes
  • Leshrac: Huge magic dealer, pusher
  • Venomancer: Extremely powerful laner, very strong nuker [just his Q does 560 damage, his W gives him free 280 on right clicks], good semi
  • Bane: Effectively has three innate disables since his Q makes right-clickers useless, his E is like 7 seconds at max rank, and his R is just terrifying
  • Lich: Sustain, reliable slow, amazing ult, Frost Armor
  • Venge: Damage aura, armor reduction, stun nuke, swap for initiate
  • Omniknight: Pure healnuke, free 12 second BKB, attack/move slow, physical invincibility
  • Warlock: Drop the rock ♥♥♥♥ [but also them Fatal Bonds and that Upheaval slow hnnnng, all from huge range]
  • Tidehunter: Super durable, can clear huge stacks of ancient camps, reliable slow & armor reduction, screen-size disabling nuke
  • Dazzle: Heals 4 days, super armor reduction ultimate
  • Disruptor: Can trap, silence and DoT an entire team, send people back to their fountain when they TP in, and bring a fleeing enemy back to where they started so they get wrecked.

tl;dr > She's a better farmer than some, but still farms slower than a lot of carries who will outclass her anyways, and her sustain depends on you foregoing building right-click damage until you rush Bloodstone, and her in a core position oftentimes isn't as versatile as other semis in that same position. She does not particularly excel in any area. Unless you've got really shitty picks in single draft, there isn't a good justification to pick her as a core over traditional carries. For the same reason, no reason to pick her over most of the supports I listed unless they have some really hard counters on the enemy team, or unless you want a dedicated single target nuker and Lion/Skywrath are gone.


Sun Dec 14, 2014 3:49 pm
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Post Re: DOTA 2 - The thread
Lina
    Attack projectile speed from 900 to 1000
    Dragon Slave damage increased from 100/170/230/280 to 110/180/250/320
    Dragon Slave mana cost increased from 90/105/125/140 to 100/115/130/145
    Light Strike Array damage rescaled from 90/150/210/280 to 120/160/200/240
    Light Strike Array mana cost increased from 90/100/110/125 to 100/110/120/130
    Light Strike Array stun duration increased from 1.6/1.8/2/2.2 to 1.6/1.9/2.2/2.5
    Fiery Soul duration increased from 9 to 10


Tue Dec 16, 2014 7:04 am
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Post Re: DOTA 2 - The thread
Her combo now does the same damage overall for 10 extra mana, but having the increased damage on Dragon Slave is a plus I think, it has huuuge range and it increases her harass and long range kill secure capabilities. LSA is really more about the stun and if you land it, you can definitely land DS right after it. Speaking of LSA, the increased stun duration is relatively minor but any bit helps, I've always thought it is a relatively short stun for being one with such low range and damage. Fiery Soul +1 sec is interesting though. Oh and her projectile speed buff would make last hitting in lane easier I suppose.

Meanwhile another +6 agility to Jugger, kek. +6 damage and attack speed and almost +1 armor right out the gate. Thanks icefrog. Jugger has buffed or not touched in every patch for 7 years now. I think he really wants him to get to first pick/ban status.


Tue Dec 16, 2014 8:53 pm
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Post Re: DOTA 2 - The thread
You know what I've always wanted to see? Witch Doctor using his stun and Lich using his ultimate at the same time. That would be so good ;-;


Wed Dec 17, 2014 7:46 pm
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Post Re: DOTA 2 - The thread
the chance of them bouncing to the same targets at the same time are monumentally low
unless theres only 2-3 targets


Thu Dec 18, 2014 6:02 am
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Post Re: DOTA 2 - The thread
When you catch 2 targets with Cask and throw Maledict on and those two spells alone kill them

Hnnnngh

I love Witch Doctor


Thu Dec 18, 2014 4:39 pm
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